Taurus Judge
 

Anybody have experience with the Taurus Judge? It's a revolver that shoots either .410 shotshells or 45 ammunition or any combination of the two. Saleman at Cabela's recommends it for home defense. He suggests loading the first two rounds with shotgun shells to stop an intruder who catches you by surprise. And, as he says, you can always go over and "finish him off" with a 45 shell if mecessary.

The judge is obviously more maneuverable in a small bedroom than an shotgun with 18-inch barrels. Question is, do the 410 shells have enough stopping power?

Current choices:

Used Rossi 12-guage for $300

New Stoeger 20-guage for $330

New Taurus Judge for $550

Re: Taurus Judge
 

Get a Mossberg 12 gauge pump with two barrels, one 18 1/2 inch for the bedroom. One ventilated rib for hunting. $259.99 this weekend at Big 5.

http://big5sportinggoods.shoplocal.c...ailerid=-98565

Stick with Mossberg or Remington 20 gauge (minimum) or 12 gauge pump...either can be had for well under $300. Maneuverability? Try a pistol grip:

Re: Taurus Judge
 

All you need to know to make up your mind.....


http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm



T

Re: Taurus Judge
 

Re: Taurus Judge
 

Boy do you have that one right ......

When you shoot , shoot to erridicate the threat and when to cops come repeat the same thing over and over.

I was in fear for my life, I was in fear for my life, I was in fear for my life.


The only one that is talking is you


T

Re: Taurus Judge
 

Boy you got jokes no dont cha?
:D

T

Re: Taurus Judge
 

Get a Mossberg 500.

The Judge is a great Snake gun, but that is it.

Re: Taurus Judge
 

Why would you go with a shotgun? I like shotguns but they would not be my choice for a home defense situation. The Judge is a toy IMO. It might be fun to shoot a snake with point blank but I wouldn't want to enter a shootout with that. Pretty useless in a real situation. For what you would spend on a Judge why not spend the money on a Glock 17 9mm and load up with Glaser Pow'R Ball or Corbon DPX? 17 round clip gives you more than enough to take out intruders that would do you harm.

Re: Taurus Judge
 

I was looking into buying The Judge for a car gun until I read the reviews and saw the pictures on The Box O Truth.

I would personally recommend a Taurus 24/7 pro in .45 ACP as I think its the best semi-auto that Taurus has put out.

http://www.taurususa.com/products/pr...ategory=Pistol

Re: Taurus Judge
 

Have a 4" SS I'll trade for silver FTF in Tx
Fired 20 Shells of 410 plus one box of colts.
I need a good rifle. My Mos 590 fills the shotgun need.

Re: Taurus Judge
 

Birdshot is for the birds, but buckshot is recommended for self-defense. The "Box O' Truth" cut down 3" shells to 2.5" without reducing the powder charge, so maybe the flattening had something to do with shooting 3 projectiles with enough propellant for 5?

Re: Taurus Judge
 

I love the box-o-truth expose on lock busting. Also, the sand-bags report was a real eye opener.

Re: Taurus Judge
 

I thought we weren't supposed to talk to cops.

Re: Taurus Judge
 

I load 2 1/2" shells with (3) 36 cal round balls .... devastating at self defense range.

3" shells can send five rounds screaming at your target with one trigger pull.

A short barreled 410 shotgun is a formidable weapon.

Re: Taurus Judge
 

5 balls are better than 3 for 2-legged snakes, but the Judge doesn't yet come with a 3" chamber. Maybe in the near future, though I've been told Taurus has had some trouble with making a reliable 3" version.

Re: Taurus Judge
 

You are 100% right ......I stand Corrected


Just shut up...... enjoy the ride(you wont be going home anyways after the incident )......and get to council as fast as you can and THEN get on the broken record...... I was in fear for my life, I was in fear for my life......


Thanks for the clarification.


T

Re: Taurus Judge
 

Are these some particular nasty rounds or something ??



T

Re: Taurus Judge
 

It's hard enough finding 20ga buckshot locally. Good luck finding .410 buckshot.

Re: Taurus Judge
 

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd_i...prod/36759.jpg

I use both of them.. I usualy have the Powerball loaded at home tho. Take a look at the PDF DPX is listed in there as well also a very nice round to use.

http://www.dakotaammo.net/custserv/catalog.pdf

Re: Taurus Judge
 

They look nasty.....

I will ask about them when I go back to my gun store.


T

Re: Taurus Judge
 

The Judge with 3" chambers is now out (model M413 vs. M410 with 2.5" chambers). According to my local shop, there are 5 in the country as of now, and they just got one of the 5. Not much visual difference vs. the 2.5" model, but the 3" shells might add some performance.

Re: Taurus Judge
 

http://www.taurususa.com/whatsnew/im...w-theJudge.jpg

I just bought a new 3" chambered Judge. It's primarily a 'bedside' weapon, to be loaded with 5 rounds in this order:

(1) 3" shell with 117 large birdshot #5 (.12 caliber each)
(2) 3" shells with 5 buckshot each sz 000 (.357 caliber each)
(2) .45 Long Colt Buffalo Bore 255 grain kieth-style semi-wadcutters at 1,000 fps and a big 566 ft/lbs energy, good for black bears and the like.

I guess I'm a believer but the Box of Truth is not. I had a 2-1/2" judge and I felt the 3-pellet buckshot load was too mild, the pattern too open. I am replacing it with this 3" and I think this will be a dandy fix. I'm waiting for my permit to purchase.

I can't explain why his (Box-of-Truth) 000 buckshot pellets flattened like that. He indicates it my be the acceleration, pellets jamming into one another... but I used to hunt deer on dog drives with 00 buckshot in 12 guage 3" magnum. in my mind if it won't flatten the pellets in a 12 pellet 00 buck load from a 12 gauge, and they fly stright and true for 35 yards, having energy to sometimes completely pass through a 170lb deer's body --- why would they mysteriously flatten in a 3" .410 barrel? Something is wierd with that test IMO.

I like the idea of sending all those pellets, whether shot meant for pheasants (117 #5 birdshot) or deer (5, .36 cal lead balls)

Consider frontal area, (entry wound size) what I consider to be an overlooked but REAL factor in effecting the target ...

Frontal area of 9mm bullet 0.10"

Frontal area of .45 bullet 0.16"

Frontal area of (5) .357 cal 000 buckshot 0.50"

Frontal area of (117) #5 birdshot total 1.32"

Many of you like a .45, partly because of the large wound upon entry and broad diameter to deliver blunt energy into the target quickly upon impact. Yet the 3" shotgun shell delivers the buckshot with about sbout 3x the frontal area of the .45 slug, a slug that's considered by all to be an excellent 'man stopper'

This is basically a 9.5' long shotgun, delivering 5shots x 3/4oz of lead, 3.75 ounces in all, in maybe 2-3 seconds.

With the Hogue custom grips it feels and points nicely to me. In stainless the front end of the barrel looks VERY intimidating.

The little .410 shell is SAAMI spec pressured at 13,500 psi. The 12 ga 3" magnum is SAAMI pressured at max 11,500psi. It is slightly 'higher intensity' in that way than the 12 gauge. This is still less than a .45 Long Colt at 15,000 psi and a .38 Special at 17,000.

But assuming the 3" barrel cuts velocity by a factor of 10/13 or 0.77, meaning a 1300 fps load in a full size barrel exits at only 1,000 fps in a 3" barrel, the (5) 000 buckshot will still exit at 846 fps. This will generate a total energy into the target of 540 ft/lbs, 5 projectiles each carrying 108 ft/lbs per pellet, about like a burst of (5) .32acp bullets at once. Thats nothing to easily dismiss.

It can also be carried in a nylon shoulder holster. Most gunfights are in low light and happen very fast, time is of the essence in hitting the target with SOMETHING. Shots anywhere to the face with large birdshot is nothing to be taken lightly. Body hits with up to (5) .357-sized holes of buckshot with one hit is nothing to dismiss when SHOT PLACEMENT is randomly distributed over the chest area. Most participants in real pistol fights report having never seen their sights, they don't really aim in that moment of 'truth' but only take time to point the weapons usually, in a real pistol-fight situation.

I feel with the Judge I can END the typical gunfight very quickly with the FIRST shot from my Judge.
If the perp keeps resisting and remains a threat I fire 2 buckshot loads of 10 pellets total.
If that does not work, he must be behind light armor and I fire 2 large .45s to punch through whatever wall or door he is hiding behind.
It's like squeezing down a garden hose from mist to pin-point intensity, only this is hot lead I'm sending out at an imminent threat.

In my opinion this is a versatile weapon having very broad capability at close range in an urban or wooded environment. Normally I'd rather hit quick with my first 5 shots than miss with my first 5 as many actual gunfights really do playout. Combat is not at all like punching paper IMO and the Judge is a REAL stopper at under 21 feet run-and-gun stuff, where most pistol fights occur.

I feel that with MOST perps, they are not in a 'most determined' frame of mind and will surrender or flee if hit my even a light projectile. For the others, I have a couple of big fast .45 slugs, waiting as a sure finisher.

But for now it's all just hypothetical. I hope to duplicate the 'Box of Truth' methodology one day and verify for myself the performance of this revolver. But for now I have a lot of faith in my new Taurus Judge to end the fight quickly in my favor. I've stocked up with a wide supply of 3" .410 including 50 rounds of Super-X 3" 5-pellet 000 buck rounds from CheaperThanDirt at $7/box of 5 rounds.

I hope I don't have to find out on a perp -- but I see one of Dick Cheneys old hunting buddies, Lawyer Harry Whittington, has already learned what just 3/4oz of birdshot shot can do... he knows the 'Judge' I guess... better than me.
http://www.thehollywoodliberal.com/w..._hospital5.jpg:thumb.aspx:

Re: Taurus Judge
 

maybe car jacking but I would not even count on it for that


http://www.taurususa.com/video/tauru...udge-video.cfm

Re: Taurus Judge
 

Meatman, knowing that a 12 ga 2 3/4" 000 buckshot round carries 8 pellets and I carry 5 from a 3" pistol, I can only wonder at your responses that this is an inneffective gun to stop even a carjacking.

These are not what I'd call 'determined criminals' but opportunists, even then at such close range they will likely catch the whole load. I cannot imagine any carjacker wanting me dead, and my '98 Camry so badly, as to ask for more punishment. But it is a really nice old car.

I keep my 12ga 870 with 7-round tube and 20" cylinder barrel unloaded and zippered in my bedroom, but like all here I have much faith in that shotgun's ability to end a fight quickly if I do my part. I just don't expect I'll need it for bedside usage really, not until things 'get worse' anyway.

This .410 3" chamber (not 2 1/2" as in the video) revolver offers about 5/8 of the pellet mass of a 12ga 2-3/4" shell, admittedly at a slower velocity but upon a presumed soft target at close range. The riflings cause the pattern to spread much more, and yet the bedside range is anticipated to be proportionally closer than the long gun is designed for. My experience with large birdshot in a 2 1/2" chambered .410 Judge shows a spread of about 1" per foot of range but buckshot is tighter. The cylinder bored longer shotgun spreads about 1" per yard with the birdshot by comparison.

I'll keep this little revolver under my pillow, as an example of just one handy and practical use. The pellets will not penetrate the interior walls of my home but will cover a man who's broken into my home or is stealing my car in my driveway. I can carry it out to the front yard in my pocket and won't alarm my neighbors, but it is a shotgun. The 566ft/lb energy .45 bullets I mention as 'finishers' are to confirm that that a very bad guy has been HIT solidly and GOOD.

On the other hand, real handgun fights with pistols at close range demonstrate a lot of handgun misses from both trained police and criminals. Some cannot anticipate how combat shooting tend to generate a panic response, and a lot of misses with 'good' handguns, unlike common practice onto paper would predict. As an example:

NYPD GUNFIGHT STATISTICS 1990-2000 MEAN SCORES
HIT PROBABILITY 15%
NYPD SHOTS FIRED PER GUNFIGHT 10.3
NYPD SHOTS FIRED PER OFFICER 5.2
Source: http://www.theppsc.org/Grossman/Main-R.htm

also:

Hit Potential In Gun Fights

The police officer's potential for hitting his adversary during armed
confrontation has increased over the years and stands at slightly over 25% of
the rounds fired. An assailant's skill was 11% in 1979.

In 1990 the overall police hit potential was 19%. Where distances could be
determined, the hit percentages at distances under 15 yards were:

Less than 3 yards ..... 38%
3 yards to 7 yards .. 11.5%
7 yards to 15 yards .. 9.4%

In 1992 the overall police hit potential was 17%. Where distances could be
determined, the hit percentages at distances under 15 yards were:

Less than 3 yards ..... 28%
3 yards to 7 yards .... 11%
7 yards to 15 yards . 4.2%
source : http://www.virginiacops.org/Articles...ing/Combat.htm

I hunt squirrels with my .22 pistol so I CAN shoot well. But ... People DO miss in real combat situations. Missing is really bad in that case. I want to HIT FAST with something. l'm very CONFIDENT I can HIT with the Judge even on a moving target in low light, perhaps while my heart rate is soaring up to over 150bpm, and I'm getting tunnel vison.

Suit yourself to opinions, it's a free country in that way so far and I'm glad for that ... but this really is a little 5-shot shotgun with a 3" barrel by any definition except having a rifled barrel, and I'm just glad it's not been made illegal like some other good weapons have been ... yet. Give it time and mine may be 'grandfathered' like some other good weapons have been, now relics of freedoms past.

Re: Taurus Judge
 

your right on your points

but I have no reason for a car jacker to walk away living

if or when I need to pull a gun on someone it is only to kill

and the judge won't do it for me

still would like to have one it would be a fun gun

and 90% of my guns are for fun
I do have the Bond snake slayer and the judge is just a bigger version

Re: Taurus Judge
 

For me, the jury is still out on this concept. I imagine they're selling like ice water in hell right now, but if they knocked a C-note off the price, I'd buy one. My daughter is convinced that Da' Judge should be her 1st handgun. I'm working on convincing her otherwise!

Re: Taurus Judge
 

I really like you man, that was just the type of response I expect from a respectable friend. And you know what? I agree with YOU on your justified points of reasoning. The shotgun rounds here are primarily to maim and or cause instant pain. In this way I hope to 'neutralize the threat' quickly... but ...

Just the other day I read about some points regarding permits to carry, and potential liability suits resulting. The best advice is to use the exact round local police departments use. This 'Judge for Defense' is perhaps to be considered a type of 'wounding round' ... perhaps that some ambulance chasing criminal in a suit could hurt me with for years to come - if I dare wound a bad guy with it...

I can hear the jury now ..."OH MY GOSH - YOU PUT OUT HIS EYE, that'll be $500k payable somehow over the next 10 years! ...poor man...)... And I'm thinking, why didn't I use a 9mm or .40 Gold Dot HP like the police use - and shoot him 3 times - and thereby avoid this STUPID legal crap?

And it stands to reason dead men do not lie... so I agree and this had been an excellent discussion here.

Maybe I should load a Buffalo Bore 200gr HP at 1,100 fps just after the 117 #5 birdshot and sorta plan on needing it ALWAYS? You know I'm only kidding of course.

I wish I could let you shoot my new 3" Judge - but I'm afraid to shoot that Bond Derringer with a 3" shell...
:coolbeer:THANKS!

Re: Taurus Judge
 

I have one and I like it. I carry it with both the .45 and .410 ammo in my car. Each has its purpose.

Blorp

Re: Taurus Judge
 

One thing is for sure about the Taurus Judge, It's FUN !!!

The pattern spreads out incredibly fast. At about 20 feet you can expect a pattern of at least 10 feet with bird shot. Though, the 2 1/2 inch shells don't pack a lot of power and the shot tends to drop fast. This may have to do with the rifled barrel.

You could close your eyes and pull the trigger and you're likely to hit the target. I'd like to see someone keep charging after me once I've popped one of these rounds at his head. I imagine the shot would easily take out one of the perp's eyes among many other wounds. At 15 feet it would probably not be lethal. But, it would certainly stop the perp. Hell, the ball of fire this thing produces would be enough to scare the hell out of anyone close by and the deafening sound of the shotgun shell. No regrets here.

Re: Taurus Judge
 

Quick thought... someone somewhere once suggested a Judga as "GANG REPELLENT" with the first load of birdshot fired at a shallow angle down onto the pavement about 5' - 10' in front of your would be assailants.

The suggestion was that the numerous balls would ricochet upward, somewhat flattened and slowed, into the leg and groin areas of multiple persons in a group, resulting in the desired response of them getting the hell away now. Yet injuries are likely only to need a good set of tweezers and no emergency room visits are likely to occur as a result of the brief altercation. I seem to recall seeing that this crude and imprecise method is used in some places as sanctioned police 'crowd control'.

I don't know about all that, but someone said it might happen sometimes that way... you know what I mean I bet. It would work best if the assailants wore short pants ... but I could figure out a way to test it for FUN at a dummy or something. There's never a shortage of dummies ya know...

Re: Taurus Judge
 

Well, I did buy the Judge with the 2 1/2" chamber. I took a 9 hour hand gun course at the local gun range and fired many weapons (er..., that's not what they're called!), including mine. I applied for the lifetime carry permit and had to interview with the local chief of police. Of course, he recommended that I store my gun locked up and unloaded. Mine, of course, is loaded and lying in the night stand next to my bed. For what it is worth, it's 10 feet from where I sleep to the open bedroom door. I sleep well at night knowing I can fire a couple of shots in the middle of the night and still have 45 colt shells chambered and ready to go.

Only problem is that I want to go back to the gun range to practice and the 45 colt shells are too expensive. I have to purchase another pistol the fires something cheaper if I want to spend any serious time at the range. Around here, 45 caliber rounds are going for more than $30 for 50. That's an expensive hobby.

Re: Taurus Judge
 

Though "dirty", you may want to pick up some reloads at a gun show. I seem to recall paying about $20 for a baggie of 50 .45 colts. For plinking there's nothing wrong with 'em.

Re: Taurus Judge
 

Merlin, I buy my ammo mostly at these two sites, shipping is about $11 on a $100 order, but no sales tax is collected, ammo is fresh always. But it is expensive... no way around it for a .45 Long Colt I know of.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/Categ...atid=78&PN=hga
or
http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/Brow...yString=653***

The lead 'cowboy' loads seem anemic to me. They may even shoot to a slightly different point of impact. I buy full-power loads. I have been pleased with Blazer brand, WW Silver Tip HP, Remington Express 225gr, or Buffalo Bore, that last brand, the hottest, is my current favorite. But I frankly don't shoot them much for practice at all.

I don't consider the Judge to be a gun I practice with much and when I do I use cheaper 2 1/2" .410 #7 birdshot fired upward into tossed cans or objects if I do.

I don't know if you've considered it or care to, but the Tracker frame is identical on many calibers in the Taurus line. I believe that to a large degree the similarity of grip, balance and grip angle for this Taurus revolver would offer good practice in liu of shooting the Judge Tracker. The 'muscle memory' might be more or less the same I suspect. The additional savings on ammo could be offsetting to the cost of the 2nd revolver if you plan to shoot a lot.

This .22 Tracker is about 10oz heavier and 2" longer than the Judge but maybe offers a pretty similar trigger, operation and feel. It's a nice varmint, small game, or long-term survival pistol too... Just a suggestion to consider:

http://www.taurususa.com/images/imagesMain/970SS6.jpg
http://www.taurususa.com/products/pr...egory=Revolver

Re: Taurus Judge
 

I do not have a Judge, but I do have a Bond Arms Snake Slayer IV derringer chambered for the three-inch .410 and the .45 Long Colt. I got the derringer for a snake gun as it is handy for that task. It has a nominal 4.25" barrel and rudimentary fixed sights. The cool part is that it is easy to swap calibers. I also have .22 LR and .357 Magnum barrels for it.

When I first got it, I tried lots of ammo in it, especially .410. It is heavy enough to minimize felt recoil. The ammo included bird shot, buck shot, and the little slug. All of it was three-inch .410 or .357 Magnum and it was either Remington or Winchester. The target was a standard round target at about 25 feet, and the back stop was my usual dirt backstop.

First, accuracy was about what I expected. The center of the pattern (for the shot loads) was a bit higher than the point of aim. The slug was low. The trigger pull made it hard to be accurate as the pull is as much up as it is back.

I tried a box of each ammo and shot it till I was tired. Then my daughter shot it. We put close to 100 rounds through it in one session.

Penetration was bad (read, horrible) with the .410 except for the slug. Some of the bird shot bounced back and hit me when I started, so my daughter did not fire any bird shot. I was able to pick all of the buck shot out of the back stop with my knife. None of it penetrated even an inch. The slug vanished into the back stop. The .357 Magnum had no issues with penetration. The 158-grain slugs were deep in the back stop.

My guess is the short barrel does not allow all of the powder to burn, effectively resulting in low velocities and little penetration.

Conclusion: .410 out of a handgun is useless as a self-defense weapon unless you shoot slugs. I use mine for snakes. I rather use a .357 Magnum in a SP-101 for self-defense.